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Guest Post: Anthony Madrid’s Ongoing Planisphere Notebook 2

ONGOING PLANI­SPHERE NOTE­BOOK
Anthony Madrid

4. Some Common Objec­tions to Ashbery—Answered

OBJEC­TIONS

(a) Doesn’t all this alle­gory and code on the sub­ject of poetry-​writing itself get a bit weari­some after a while? I mean, it’s not like he’s saying any­thing bold. And it’s every other poem.

(b) The per­sona of this book—gentle, quirky, finicky, lik­able, 100% harm­less in every way—don’t you ever get sick of the coy­ness of all that, the self-​satisfaction?

(c) Aren’t sev­enty or eighty per­cent of these dic­tion odd­i­ties just a bunch of honors dorm humor?

[p. 129] A stupor like sheep’s nos­trils
chases the ground. Day arrives with a thwack
and is left to sit all day.

[p. 134] I’ll have a mus­tard coke.

ANSWERS

(a) When people object to poetry about poetry, it’s usu­ally because they don’t like the spe­cific atti­tude being struck. Anyhow, in my expe­ri­ence the same read­ers who reject Ashbery’s devo­tion to writ­ing about poet­ry­writ­ing never seem to mind it when, say, Hafez or Han Shan relent­lessly han­dles the exact same theme. The dif­fer­ence is that those two guys never do any­thing but vaunt poetry’s powers. Mean­while, Ash­bery is a relent­less skep­tic, both of the art in gen­eral and his own stuff in par­tic­u­lar. Which is the very reason he is attrac­tive to some readers.

(b) Is Ash­bery coy and self-satisfied—? Take the case of Ashbery’s ref­er­ences (sup­pos­edly much mul­ti­plied since Flow Chart, 1990) to his own can’t-be-very-far-off death. Ash­bery always han­dles the theme in exactly the same tonal register:

[p. 2] I guess I must be going.
[p. 6] Now it was time, and there was noth­ing for it
[p. 64] Don’t forget to write!
[p. 70] I was halfway out the door anyway
[p. 75] There is noth­ing like putting off a jour­ney
[p. 81] Yet one says, so long
[p. 99] I’ll be on my way
[p. 108] I have to go
[p. 129] Well I can’t stay
[p. 130] We’re moving today
[p. 135] We’d better be get­ting along before it gets dark
[p. 139] Soon it was time to choose another climate

Now, obvi­ously the tone here is appeal­ing. Modest, inof­fen­sive, quotidian—and above all, rec­on­ciled. (He even has a poem here that begins, “As vir­tu­ous men float mildly away….”) And the ques­tion isn’t even whether all this is a sham or not. It’s whether there’s an unseemly self-amusement/self-satisfaction evident.

Say it is a sham. A fan­tasy of going gently into that good night. As fan­tasies go, it’s not igno­ble. The poet is led away to the common slaugh­ter, his eyes wide open, his mind some­what fud­dled, his mouth full of nei­ther ful­some bless­ings nor thrilling curses. He says merely Bye now! and Que sais-​je?

Sounds like as good a way to go as any. The obnox­ious thing would be if Ash­bery were rub­bing that ideal up the reader’s snout. Cer­tain people can’t help but take it that way, depend­ing on how strongly they think it’s the wrong fan­tasy. If your aes­thet­ics of deathbed speeches calls for Shake­spearean ora­tory (of one form or another) or zoinks of Zen cold fusion, then you’re bound to feel like Ashbery’s trying to score a point off ol’ Shake­speare or whatever.

In other words: “self-​satisfied”? Sure, if you like. But if you say the li’l guy rou­tine is a smarmy put-​on, I say unto you: Exam­ine your con­science. I bet your objec­tion is more to li’l guys than to put-​ons and smarm.

(c) Dic­tion odd­i­ties and honors dorm humor. Now, here I’m happy to admit Ashbery’s sense of fun does not do it for me, a whop­pin’ per­cent of the time. Phrases like “man­drills on the turn­pike” leave me cold, cold. But there is a very great dif­fer­ence between being left cold and being pro­voked to the kind of rage rep­re­sented by a cer­tain famil­iar illus­tra­tion from Through the Looking-​Glass. (It’s in the chap­ter called “Twee­dle­dum and Twee­dledee”; you can gaze upon it here.) That’s how I used to react.

What made me change? That’s easy. I stopped think­ing Ash­bery was grind­ing an axe with that stuff. Making a point. Mock­ing expec­ta­tions. Being delib­er­ately lame. These days, I just figure he thinks all that stuff is swell, and I calmly disagree.

I still have Tweedledum-​style melt­downs from time to time, but lat­terly I reserve that kind of thing for sit­u­a­tions where I have to listen to the dorks defend­ing the yaks and the thwacks and the mus­tard cokes by recourse to high-​sounding words and phi­los­o­phy. (This is actu­ally a deep point about mis­placed dis­likes of Ash­bery. Gotta take care not to hate him when you should be hating the people who smack their silly lips over the worst parts of him.) [Sloan dixit: "It's not the band I hate, it's their fans."—mr]

94 Responses

  1. On (a), I always fig­ured JA fig­ured it were good enough for Stevens it were good enough for him. And he was right. Yet another phe­nom­e­non of life where Sturgeon’s Law is useful.

  2. Jordan says:

    Stur­geon wasn’t enough of a cur­mud­geon.

  3. Kent Johnson says:

    I think my favorite Ash­bery line is the Erra­tum slip found in the first edi­tion of House­boat Days, a cor­rec­tion for “Fantasia on ‘The Nut-​Brown Maid’” :

    *Due to an unfor­tu­nate type­set­ting error, a line has been printed in an incor­rect posi­tion. Line 6 on page 83, “falling back to the vase again like a foun­tain. Responsible” should be deleted. It appears in the cor­rect place on page 88.*

    One won­ders how such a thing could happen. And would anyone have noticed, with­out the erra­tum note? My guess is that Ash­bery planned it on pur­pose, the inserted slip meant as a detached, mov­able line in the book.

    • Henry Gould says:

      Close, Kent, close. The errata slip was included by JA to remind him to write another poem today, on that sub­ject. He also uses it as a book­mark.

  4. Archambeau says:

    I con­fess to asking myself ques­tions (a), (b), and (c) every now and then. I think the answers here are as good as any I’ve seen, and better than what I usu­ally come up with. But what about ques­tion (d), which is:

    (d) isn’t it all a bit like look­ing at some really, really good wall­pa­per after a while (I mean, good wall­pa­per, like WIlliam Morris good)? I mean, doesn’t the same set of fig­ures, tones, atti­tudes sort of cir­cu­late end­lessly, with­out much sense of move­ment other than (to steal a Wal­lace Stevens phrase), “merely circulating”?

    Bob

    • Peter Greene says:

      Aaah, now I must say, the baroque argu­ments sur­round­ing and sup­port­ing the thin clear deep low flow of art and word ARE a lot like good-​ass William Morris wall­pa­per. They move and writhe slowly within their set yet slowly shift­ing forms. Fun if you’re in that sort of mood, and espe­cially if prone to pattern-​hallucinations. I think you’ve actu­ally defined for me a major reason I’m nosing back around the seri­ous art world again after so long – hungry for that long weird trip­pin.

      PG

  5. Kent Johnson says:

    Speak­ing of errata slips, and because I know some people here are inter­ested in Bour­dieu, thought I’d men­tion that Gabe Gud­ding and I are locked in position-​taking battle over mat­ters related to PB at Archambeau’s Samiz­dat.

  6. john says:

    Nobody seems to be object­ing to the objec­tions to Ash­bery, even Archambeau’s — and I share the objec­tions too. What I don’t get is why the felic­i­ties have made him the con­sen­sus Number One Poet of our time.

    I wrote a poem about Ash­bery in May of ‘08.

    [This com­ment has been edited for length.

    Folks, in the future, please don't post your own poetry in the com­ments unless you can keep it to 5-10 lines. If you've got your own blog, post the poem there and add a link to it in your com­ment. If you don't have your own blog, you can get one here, post your poem on it, and then add a link in your com­ment. --rpb]

    • Kent Johnson says:

      This seems
      like a bit
      of an over­re­ac­tion.
      And that’s
      my poem.

    • john says:

      What a funny policy! Dis­course must be in prose? What an old-​fashioned notion! Or are you just miffed because I approved of Zizek call­ing Fou­cault a yuppie? To avoid con­fu­sion, you might want to post your com­ments policy promi­nently.

      I posted the excerpts from my poem because I had posted on my blog, and it antic­i­pated a number of Madrid’s con­cerns. I’ve since revised the poem and didn’t want to post a link. Ah well, if anybody’s inter­ested I’d be happy to send you a revised copy.

      I don’t read all the poems in Harriet’s com­ments streams, but I’m glad they’re there.

      • Kent Johnson says:

        Here’s an inter­est­ing thought exper­i­ment:

        If John Ash­bery hap­pened to send in a poem to DE, would it be edited down if it went over ten lines?

      • Michael Robbins says:

        I am com­pletely baf­fled when­ever anyone posts their own poetry in a com­ments stream. It’s, well, obnox­ious. If Ash­bery tried to do it on one of my posts, I’d delete it in a second. I had noth­ing to do with edit­ing the above poem, but I whole­heart­edly sup­port the policy.

      • The policy is here. There should be a link to it right near the com­ment box, but for some reason that’s dis­ap­peared. I’ll try to fix it when I can.

        I edit (and some­times delete) com­ments for the simple reason that I want DE to be a place where con­ver­sa­tions can take place. When people post 800 pixels’ worth of their poetry, it acts pretty effec­tively to kill what­ever con­ver­sa­tion came before it. This doesn’t mean there aren’t excep­tions, and I feel quite at lib­erty to make them as I please. (Sov­er­eign is he who decides the excep­tion, and all that…) John’s poem, need­less to say, didn’t war­rant one.

        If Ash­bery sent in a poem to DE I would not only leave it in situ, I would also prob­a­bly repro­duce it in its own post. I don’t know why that would seem mys­te­ri­ous or inter­est­ing to anyone, but there it is.

    • Kent Johnson says:

      The Medici!

    • Kent Johnson says:

      [Eleven lines by Paul Mul­doon]

      Holy Thurs­day

      –for Michael Rob­bins

      They’re kindly here, to let us linger so late,
      Long after the shut­ters are up.
      A waiter glides from the kitchen with a plate
      Of stew, or some thick soup,

      And set­tles him­self at the next table but one.
      We know, you and I, that it’s over,
      That some­thing or other has come between
      Us, what­ever we are, or were.

      The waiter swabs his plate with bread
      And drains what’s left of his wine,
      Then rearranges [the tiny chairs], one by one…

  7. Archambeau says:

    I wrote a bit about Ash­bery as Con­sen­sus Bigwig in the intro to Lau­re­ates and Heretics, which comes out in a month or two. Email me at my Lake Forest Col­lege address if you want, and I’ll see if I can dig it up for you.

    B

  8. Archambeau says:

    John,

    This is from an early draft, but it’s the only one I have on this com­puter. And the only ver­sion, I think, that’s short enough for the present con­text:

    When I first read Kellogg’s essay “The Self in the Poetic Field,” I knew I had found a par­a­digm for under­stand­ing poetry that would make the project I had in mind pos­si­ble. Kellogg’s work, based on the cul­tural soci­ol­ogy of Pierre Bour­dieu, pro­vided two things: a set of com­pass points by which one could begin to under­stand the vast­ness and the vari­ety of Amer­i­can poetry; and a way of read­ing that could account for both aes­thet­ics and soci­ol­ogy. His model pro­posed a read­ing of Amer­i­can poetry in terms of the social and aes­thetic claims made for it by its read­ers, and offered a way of con­struct­ing models of the poetic field as it shifted over time.

    Kellogg’s arti­cle defines the field of Amer­i­can poetry in terms of two axes of value, one aes­thetic, rang­ing from the tra­di­tional to the exper­i­men­tal; the other soci­o­log­i­cal, rang­ing from the indi­vid­ual to the com­mu­nal. Read­ers, crit­ics, review­ers, prize com­mit­tees, anthol­o­gists, and pub­lish­ers define the rel­a­tive pres­tige of these dif­fer­ent values, as well as the rela­tion of indi­vid­ual poets to the var­i­ous values. They do this through the selec­tion of works for pub­li­ca­tion or prizes, but also in sub­tler ways, such as the claim­ing a cer­tain poet is rel­e­vant to or rep­re­sents an iden­tity group, or by plac­ing of a poet’s work in the con­text of a tra­di­tion or a school of inno­v­a­tive writ­ing. To sim­plify greatly, you could say that the poet who is claimed from the most posi­tions (or is claimed most strongly for a cer­tain posi­tion) wins — if by “win­ning” we mean gain­ing a large read­er­ship or a pres­ti­gious rep­u­ta­tion. One becomes impor­tant by being claimed as a rep­re­sen­ta­tive of a com­mu­nity (like, say, Adri­enne Rich, as rep­re­sen­ta­tive of fem­i­nist, dis­abil­ity, and queer com­mu­ni­ties); or as an icon of indi­vid­ual sen­si­bil­ity (like Robert Lowell, or others in the con­fes­sional move­ment); or as a standard-​bearer of one or another ver­sion of tra­di­tion (think of Dana Gioia as a New For­mal­ist); or as a lumi­nary of the avant-​garde (like, say, Bob Perel­man, one of the Ivy League’s lan­guage poets). If the crit­ics, anthol­o­gists, and prize-​givers from a number of dif­fer­ent com­mu­ni­ties happen to need what you have to offer, you could be claimed from sev­eral sides at once — the career of John Ash­bery being a shin­ing exam­ple. For some Ash­bery car­ries into our own time the great tra­di­tion that runs from Keats through Wal­lace Stevens (people like this write arti­cles with titles like “John Ashbery’s Revi­sion of the Post-​Romantic Quest”). For others he is the great lin­guis­tic inno­va­tor who inau­gu­rated a new era in poetry with The Tennis Court Oath (people like this write arti­cles with titles like “Houses of Poetry After Ash­bery: The Poetry of Ann Lauter­bach and Donald Revell”). For some Ash­bery is the most per­sonal and pri­vate of poets (people like this write arti­cles with titles like “John Ash­bery: The Self Against Its Images”). For others he is a rep­re­sen­ta­tive of the gay male com­mu­nity (people like this write arti­cles with titles like “Reports of Loot­ing and Insane Bug­gery behind Altars: John Ashbery’s Queer Pol­i­tics”) . If not exactly all things to all people, Ash­bery is, at any rate, many things to many people. His way of cre­at­ing his time hap­pens to be useful to useful to rep­re­sen­ta­tives of all quad­rants of the Amer­i­can poetic field that Kel­logg maps. It is surely no coin­ci­dence that Ash­bery is one of the most canon­i­cal Amer­i­can poets of our time.

    So there’s my 2 cents on Ashbery’s pop­u­lar­ity.

    Bob

    • Kent Johnson says:

      Hey Bob, where can one find the Kel­logg essay? Is that *David* Kel­logg? I’ve always liked his stuff. Smart guy.

    • Henry Gould says:

      Good thing that didn’t come with line breaks, Bob. You’d be out of your 2 cents.

  9. Kent Johnson says:

    >If Ash­bery tried to do it on one of my posts, I’d delete it in a second.

    Oh, yeah, RIGHT!

  10. Archambeau says:

    David Kel­logg, yep. The essay was in Fence 3.2, Winter 2000-2001. Not online, as far as I know. Good essay — witty, too.

    B.

    • Kent Johnson says:

      Thanks, Bob.

      David Kel­logg is great. He valiantly defended me, on his blog, after Scott Simon attacked me, about two years ago, on NPR’s All things Con­sid­ered. This really hap­pened.

      • Jordan says:

        David Kel­logg is great.

        Scott Simon is great.

        Kent John­son is great.

        Ain’t it great to be great!

        Just like me.

      • Kent Johnson says:

        A fine appli­ca­tion of the lower end of the DE verse-​length limit.

        More quin­tains!

      • Jordan says:

        > quin­tains

        Deep fried, with pollo al carbon please.

  11. john says:

    “John’s poem, need­less to say, didn’t war­rant one [an exception].”

    Oh, you are a saucy number!

    Thanks for post­ing the com­ments policy. Noth­ing about post­ing poems in it, so you may want to update. I’m sure I’ve gone over the limit for stupid and/or offen­sive — but the poem — well, it wasn’t a poem — it was an excerpt from a very, very long poem, and now the excerpted excerpt is prac­ti­cally mean­ing­less. Please delete the whole excerpt, if you wouldn’t mind — but, please note, it was on point. I actu­ally took out the line breaks to look at it as prose with the thought of re-​posting, but it didn’t read as well, so forget it.

    I would like to re-​post this obser­va­tion, since I haven’t seen it else­where: Roman­ti­cism wrapped in irony. That’s my take-​away from read­ing JA. Bril­liant roman­ti­cism — the “hit lines” are gor­geous, and the Nation reviewer I men­tioned (Ange Mlinko, FWIW) as well as the NYTimes reviewer (whose name I didn’t know and have for­got­ten) both focused on them, as did A. Madrid. I happen to find JA’s habit­ual digres­sions vexing, and his syn­tac­ti­cal sleights-of-hand an annoy­ing styl­is­tic tic (the antecedent-​less “it” is every­where in his stuff), but his great lines blow me away.

    Great post, Bob Archam­beau — makes a lot of sense to me — thanks for putting it up!

    p.s. RPB, we’re neigh­bors! If you live at your mail­ing address, I walk near your place on the way to the Capi­tol Hill Library all the time. Howdy, neigh­bor!

    • Jordan says:

      Bobby Baird is great.

      Bob Archam­beau is great.

      Ange Mlinko is great.

      Ain’t it great to be great!

      Just like John Shaw.

      • Jordan says:

        (I’m seri­ous, by the way, and I hope that comes through. SRSLY.)

      • Kent Johnson says:

        Jordan is my best boyfriend.

        Ron Sil­li­man is my second-​best boyfriend.

        John Ash­bery is on my back.

        He digs his spurs deep in my thighs.

        Don Share combs Miguel Hernandez’s hair on the moon.

      • Jordan says:

        You lie!

        . )

    • Kent Johnson says:

      The St. Marks Series is fab­u­lous.

      The SEGUE Series is ter­rific.

      The PENN Sound Series is mag­nif­i­cent.

      None of them have ever con­tacted me!

      In 2000, I smoked with Pierre Bour­dieu in Delft.

    • Kent Johnson says:

      Apolo­gies. Over­dose of decon­ges­tants, it seems.

    • Glad to hear it John. We’ll have to hit up Vivace one of these days.

  12. Michael Robbins says:

    >If Ash­bery sent in a poem to DE I would not only leave it in situ, I would also prob­a­bly repro­duce it in its own post.

    Yes, I know. I was lying.

    • Kent Johnson says:

      Michael Rob­bins lies about John Ash­bery.

      Gabe Gud­ding lies about Pierre Bour­dieu.

      HTML Giant unscrolls its Ode to being hip and twenty-​nine.

      Where is Franz Wright, the hermit of Hab­sheim?

      He is a pillar of snow, with a carrot for a nose, and a tulip for a mouth.

      • Kent Johnson says:

        Rae Armantrout is a Final­ist for the NBCCA.

        D.A. Powell is a Final­ist for the NBCCA.

        Rachel Zucker is a Final­ist for the NBCCA.

        Keith Wal­drop has won the NBA.

        Lan­guage poetry is like the USSR.

      • Kent Johnson says:

        Henry Gould imi­tates loon calls in Ely.

        Kenny Gold­smith copies the Times in New York City.

        Lara Glenum talks kinky in Pough­keep­sie.

        Pak­ista­nis scat­ter, a mile below, like ants gone crazy.

        Who says Amer­i­can poets don’t have man­i­fold tal­ents?

      • Jordan says:

        Don’t you remem­ber being 29, Kent? As I recall I spent that year think­ing I was an old man.

      • Jordan says:

        Maybe I’m mis­tak­ing descrip­tion for put­downs again.

        Names! inter­change­able.

    • Kent Johnson says:

      Joshua Clover leans into the wind, like Lenin.

      Juliana Spahr sprays bul­lets into a Seven Eleven.

      Once I was in the Soviet Union with Bar­rett Watten.

      Where are you going, Bar­rett, I said to him near the Neva.

      The sun was behind him, and his face was like a disc of fire.

  13. Kent Johnson says:

    The fury of Flarf has one oil against two vine­gars.

    The atavism of Con­cep­tu­al­ism has two shov­els against one can.

    Why did Helen Vendler flee across the fields, beyond Erzu­rum?

    Leav­ing her gar­ments neatly folded, atop this mossy stone?

    Because, Frank O’Hara, those are Capital’s dumps that were our coral towns.

  14. Jordan says:

    OMG OMG OMG RAE HAS GONE AND DONE NAMED HER NEXT MSS M*O*N*E*Y S*H*O*T

  15. Michael Robbins says:

    I know, she told me & Anthony Madrid this as we walked her to her read­ing at the U of C the other day. Both of us were pissed we hadn’t thought of it first.

  16. Jordan says:

    YES WE KNOW WE KNOW YOU AND ANTHONY MADRID THIS YOU AND ANTHONY MADRID THAT… YOU COULD HAVE SHARED THE NEWS WITH US ***THE OTHER DAY.*** THANKS A LOT.

    THE BEST POS­SI­BLE AMER­I­CAN POETRY BOOK TITLE IS NOW TAKEN. GAME. SET. MATCH.

  17. Michael Robbins says:

    She knows it, too. She said, “You guys will like the title of my new manuscript,” then she told us, & we both went, “Oooooooh.”

  18. Jordan says:

    YES YES WE KNOW JAMES FRANCO WILL PLAY YOU IN THE MOVIE. SHEEEEEESH

    .)

  19. Michael Robbins says:

    I can’t tell a simple story with­out being accused of logrolling?

  20. Jordan says:

    You can do any­thing you like, Michael. I can too.

    I’ll say this for that title, though — it will make it less likely that I pur­chase sev­eral copies to give as Christ­mas gifts to family mem­bers.

  21. The day I start trying to impress people by name­drop­ping Rae Armantrout…. Well. What­evs.

  22. Jordan says:

    Touchy! I’m envi­ous, obvs. Con­sider the all-​caps dropped.

    It’s a great story all the same. (Cue Ken­taine.)

  23. It actu­ally depressed me. I real­ized I wanted that title really bad.

  24. Jordan says:

    Yeah! Rae has had that effect on me a few times in the past. Glad, I think, that she’s still capa­ble of it.

  25. Then we made fun of Anthony for not being in The New Yorker & prank-​called Richard Wilbur.

  26. Jordan says:

    Ha ha. Then Obama said, “They didn’t send us to Wash­ing­ton to fight each other in some sort of steel-​cage match to see who comes out alive.” Only *that* one really hap­pened.

  27. I’d pay to see that! Money shot!

  28. john says:

    @Jordan: “Just like John Shaw.”

    Thanks, but, I am not great, I am life.

    Re: Rae A: sex and death, sex and food, sex and money.

    More songs about death, food, and money! (Robert Graves: Pluto, god of death, was also god of wealth. Freud: money = excre­ment.)

  29. Kent Johnson says:

    Reread­ing my first quin­tain (or cinquain, what­ever the term) I laughed in horror, real­iz­ing the unin­tended sexual innu­endo! So here is the proper ver­sion:

    Jordan Davis is my boyfriend.

    Ron Sil­li­man is my second-​best boyfriend.

    I carry John Ash­bery on my back, up the moun­tain.

    He digs his spurs deep in my thighs.

    Don Share combs Miguel Hernandez’s hair on the moon.

  30. Kent Johnson says:

    Rae Armantrout has come to visit, in her full, styl­ish burqa.

    She rushes towards us, across the quad, out of a zone of dark and storm.

    You must know it, and a thou­sand times: We are both in the New Yorker.

    Also, the campus is great, a spot of tran­quil­ity, orbited by garbage.

    Two hours with her in the Library, and our faces go wild; clouds turn into animal crack­ers.

  31. Kent Johnson says:

    Change “Frank O’Hara” to “Frank.”

    A chap of thirty, solicited yes­ter­day, is in process; it will be ded­i­cated to Jordan Davis, with thanks for the inspi­ra­tion.

    • john says:

      Con­grat­u­la­tions to you both!

      Look­ing for­ward to seeing the whole series. Please keep me informed!

  32. Kent Johnson says:

    Thanks, John.

    Change “garbage” to “dross.”

    • Cy Mathews says:

      Kent, I prefer the “improper” ver­sion. Why would anyone begrudge been mounted by America’s great­est poet? Come on!

  33. Kent Johnson says:

    Cy, thanks for the sug­ges­tion.

    How­ever, it’s not so much that *I* would begrudge it; it’s just that it comes across as incred­i­bly pre­sump­tu­ous on my part that Ash­bery would want to mount, in that fash­ion, an over­weight, ugly guy like me.

    I was pretty good look­ing in my day, though.

  34. Btw, Anthony’s read­ing at Myopic Books Sunday night (Jan 31) at 7 pm. If you’re in the Chi, please come! I will be per­form­ing var­i­ous card tricks.

  35. Kent Johnson says:

    In addi­tion to Madrid’s The 580 Stro­phes, there is another major (I said major) first book by a “more-or-less younger” Chicago poet coming soon:

    John Beer’s The Waste Land and Other Poems.

    Now I have the com­plete, signed advance man­u­scripts of both.

    Inquiries and offers from well-​endowed libraries and pri­vate man­u­script col­lec­tors are wel­comed.

  36. Kent Johnson says:

    Oh, and one more true stun­ner of a book related to Chicago, though the poet is from North Car­olina, out of the now deeply under­ground Lucipo group, and it’s pos­si­ble you haven’t yet heard of him, he’s never been in the New Yorker:

    Tim Earley’s forth­com­ing big col­lec­tion from Cracked Slab, and now I am blank­ing on the title, even though I wrote a blurb for it, the man­u­script is at home, but I’m very seri­ous, it’s going to knock holes in people’s skulls, you’ll see.

    • Cy Mathews says:

      Ah, Kent, I’m sure you’re being unduly modest. I have seen that photo of you, in a prospect of flow­ers, on some South Amer­i­can street. Anyway, poetry should be pre­sump­tu­ous.

      Anthony (is Anthony is the house? If not, I will talk to the empty air), I find objection/answer (c) espe­cially inter­est­ing, pri­mar­ily because there seems to be a strong ele­ment of puck­ish, even juve­nile, humour in your own poems, what with those moments of goofy sur­re­al­ism and self-​apostrophizing (sic).

      Back to Kent: is Lucipo some kind of Oulipo offshoot/mutant?

  37. MIchael Hansen says:

    These are straw­men, Mr. Madrid. Come now.

    Kent: I wish you’d put me in one of your poems.

    • Kent Johnson says:

      M. Hansen has mur­dered an inno­cent deer.

      He saws fast her haunches and snaps frothy two beer.

      Eft­soons and with yare, he cuts forth the heart.

      “Gramercy,” says Rob­bins, “Your courtesy’s an Art;”

      “I shall stuff it for Zizek, in a free-​range fowl tart.

      • Kent Johnson says:

        Well, I sure didn’t do a very good job with my quo­ta­tion marks in the last two lines, there!

  38. john says:

    FOR JORDAN, KENT, ROBERT, AND NOT FOR­GET­TING MICHAEL

    There once was a Dig­i­tal Emu­nc­tion
    Whose editor showed no com­punc­tion.
    Then came clinky, linked chains
    Of mar­velous cinquains.
    Hurrah for the poetic func­tion!

  39. Kent Johnson says:

    The para­graphe organyzes the sen­tences.

    The para­graphe is a unity of quan­ti­tye, not logick or argu­mente.

    Sen­tence lengthe is a unyt of mea­sure.

    Sen­tence struc­ture is alterede for torque, or increased polysemie/ambiguitie.

    Once, on his blog, he com­parede post-​avant poets to Civil Rights marchers.

    • Kent Johnson says:

      Cy,

      Lucipo was a once-​vibrant move­ment of young poets in Durham, North Car­olina (and envi­rons), ca. early first decade of the cur­rent mil­len­nium. Then my good friend (and still good friend) Gabe Gud­ding posted his famous, bril­liant Poetic Nar­cis­sism man­i­festo on the Lucipo List­serv, a barely dis­guised attack on my person, as well as a brave self-​analysis of his own (though he claimed he was think­ing of Allen Gins­berg). This pre­cip­i­tated a great and leg­endary con­vul­sion, too com­pli­cated to recon­struct, in these boxes. The short of it is that the List imploded and the group went pri­vate, retreat­ing to the hills, set­tling in to a long period of iso­lated polygamy and inbreed­ing, from which it has not yet emerged.

      Here is the entry writ­ten for them by the mys­te­ri­ous feneon col­lec­tive [uni­fied ten­dency]. The book of the fc collective’s 242 faits divers (some of them updated, I’ve heard, from their orig­i­nal appear­ance last year online) is rumored to be in pro­duc­tion and out in the coming months:

      And given up for dead! An ethnog­ra­phy crew, stum­bling through a lost hollow of the Smokey Moun­tains, has found the bearded sur­vivors of the Lucipo group, their lean-​tos arranged around a copper still.

  40. john says:

    “But if you say the li’l guy rou­tine is a smarmy put-​on, I say unto you: Exam­ine your con­science. I bet your objec­tion is more to li’l guys than to put-​ons and smarm.”

    It *is* a rou­tine — it’s writ­ing! it’s a rhetor­i­cal effect! — and there’s noth­ing wrong with that. It’s the ubiq­uity of the effect that becomes objec­tion­able — too much of the same thing. IMO, YMMV, caveat lector, et cetera, et cetera.

  41. Henry Gould says:

    Are there any earth­worms in New Jersey?
    Just asking.

  42. MIchael Hansen says:

    Kent, Even if I weren’t in that little poem, I’d find it bril­liant.

  43. Kent Johnson says:

    MH,

    As you might imag­ine, I find my deer-​dressing cinquain bril­liant, too, so thanks for the con­fir­ma­tion. (Though I’m really mad about screw­ing up the quo­ta­tion marks at the end there, as it makes it seem that *you* might be speak­ing the last line.)

    MR took it well, and much as I meant it: a gentle, affec­tion­ate poke. He wrote me to say he was going to send it to Paul Mul­doon, urging its pub­li­ca­tion in the New Yorker.

    I wrote another cinquain yes­ter­day, about W.S. Merwin, com­posed of double hexa­m­e­ters, but it didn’t quite work, so I decided to scrap it. Here are three dis­con­nected lines, though, that I thought were kind of good:

    One thing that really blew me away when I first started read­ing Merwin was that he didn’t use punc­tu­a­tion.

    I have no idea how he does it; it’s kind of ghostly and dis­em­bod­ied, like driz­zle, or the Congo.
    [....]
    His vixen, for exam­ple, though a more abstract sen­tient crea­ture, is endowed with both a totally modern mind as well as deep old foresty knowl­edge, and if that’s not awe­some, well, send a drone after me and the whole mud town.

  44. Michael Robbins says:

    >MR … wrote me to say …

    Of course I didn’t write to say any such thing; I haven’t read the piece in ques­tion. I stopped read­ing this thread some time back. I am, how­ever, glad I clicked on this par­tic­u­lar email to learn that there is a poem I don’t need to read to which I don’t need to respond.

  45. Kent Johnson says:

    Hey guys, “you don’t say”…

    I thought the ref­er­ence to MR con­tact­ing Paul Mul­doon was the give­away! Geez.

    In any case, MR, of course! I didn’t write it so you would respond, so no need, at all, to assure us that you don’t “need to.”

    How about a report on Madrid’s read­ing?

  46. Jordan says:

    > give­away!

    Oh, you were kid­ding around.

    You gotta flag those hoaxes, Kent! Use the hoax tag:

    [hoax]He wrote me he was going to say…[/hoax]

  47. Kent Johnson says:

    Hey, it makes me feel good, Jordan, that you and MR seem to think there was *plau­si­ble* ring to the smil­ing line about The New Yorker being con­tacted on my three-​minute little poem. Maybe it’s better than I sus­pected!

  48. Jordan says:

    That’s what the inter­net is all about, Kent — making you, Kent John­son, feel good.

    • Jordan says:

      Forgot to add, it’s also great for making me feel supe­rior!

      • Kent Johnson says:

        You *are* supe­rior, Jordan.

      • Jordan says:

        > You *are*

        Just ask me.

        By the way, there’s a *great* Steve Reich com­po­si­tion with that name — I know a lot of people think the har­monies are very ’60s pastel/metallic tum­bler but they are wrong wrong wrong.

  49. Henry Gould says:

    Did you know that the inter­net in its entirety is retained on the inner lining of your retina?

  50. [Redacted!]

    [Get it?]

    • Henry Gould says:

      You’ll be famous for that some­day, Michael! You’ll be famous for being famous for being famous!

      btw, if you repeat “famous” at top speed 45 times, you start seeing lil’ green devils.

  51. (“Boy will I!” or vari­a­tions thereof con­sti­tute pre­dictable & pre­dicted responses.)

  52. john says:

    I would be shocked if the New Yorker repub­lished poems that first appeared on the web (blog com­ments, no less!) — *that* should have been the give­away. (Though I passed glanc­ingly by the com­ment too.)

    And who couldn’t use more gentle affec­tion­ate pokes?



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