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Guest Post: Anthony Madrid’s Ongoing Planisphere Notebook 2

ONGOING PLANI­SPHERE NOTE­BOOK
Anthony Madrid

4. Some Common Objec­tions to Ashbery—Answered

OBJEC­TIONS

(a) Doesn’t all this alle­gory and code on the sub­ject of poetry-​writing itself get a bit weari­some after a while? I mean, it’s not like he’s saying any­thing bold. And it’s every other poem.

(b) The per­sona of this book—gentle, quirky, finicky, lik­able, 100% harm­less in every way—don’t you ever get sick of the coy­ness of all that, the self-​satisfaction?

(c) Aren’t sev­enty or eighty per­cent of these dic­tion odd­i­ties just a bunch of honors dorm humor?

[p. 129] A stupor like sheep’s nos­trils
chases the ground. Day arrives with a thwack
and is left to sit all day.

[p. 134] I’ll have a mus­tard coke.

ANSWERS

(a) When people object to poetry about poetry, it’s usu­ally because they don’t like the spe­cific atti­tude being struck. Anyhow, in my expe­ri­ence the same read­ers who reject Ashbery’s devo­tion to writ­ing about poet­ry­writ­ing never seem to mind it when, say, Hafez or Han Shan relent­lessly han­dles the exact same theme. The dif­fer­ence is that those two guys never do any­thing but vaunt poetry’s powers. Mean­while, Ash­bery is a relent­less skep­tic, both of the art in gen­eral and his own stuff in par­tic­u­lar. Which is the very reason he is attrac­tive to some readers.

(b) Is Ash­bery coy and self-satisfied—? Take the case of Ashbery’s ref­er­ences (sup­pos­edly much mul­ti­plied since Flow Chart, 1990) to his own can’t-be-very-far-off death. Ash­bery always han­dles the theme in exactly the same tonal register:

[p. 2] I guess I must be going.
[p. 6] Now it was time, and there was noth­ing for it
[p. 64] Don’t forget to write!
[p. 70] I was halfway out the door anyway
[p. 75] There is noth­ing like putting off a jour­ney
[p. 81] Yet one says, so long
[p. 99] I’ll be on my way
[p. 108] I have to go
[p. 129] Well I can’t stay
[p. 130] We’re moving today
[p. 135] We’d better be get­ting along before it gets dark
[p. 139] Soon it was time to choose another climate

Now, obvi­ously the tone here is appeal­ing. Modest, inof­fen­sive, quotidian—and above all, rec­on­ciled. (He even has a poem here that begins, “As vir­tu­ous men float mildly away….”) And the ques­tion isn’t even whether all this is a sham or not. It’s whether there’s an unseemly self-amusement/self-satisfaction evident.

Say it is a sham. A fan­tasy of going gently into that good night. As fan­tasies go, it’s not igno­ble. The poet is led away to the common slaugh­ter, his eyes wide open, his mind some­what fud­dled, his mouth full of nei­ther ful­some bless­ings nor thrilling curses. He says merely Bye now! and Que sais-​je?

Sounds like as good a way to go as any. The obnox­ious thing would be if Ash­bery were rub­bing that ideal up the reader’s snout. Cer­tain people can’t help but take it that way, depend­ing on how strongly they think it’s the wrong fan­tasy. If your aes­thet­ics of deathbed speeches calls for Shake­spearean ora­tory (of one form or another) or zoinks of Zen cold fusion, then you’re bound to feel like Ashbery’s trying to score a point off ol’ Shake­speare or whatever.

In other words: “self-​satisfied”? Sure, if you like. But if you say the li’l guy rou­tine is a smarmy put-​on, I say unto you: Exam­ine your con­science. I bet your objec­tion is more to li’l guys than to put-​ons and smarm.

(c) Dic­tion odd­i­ties and honors dorm humor. Now, here I’m happy to admit Ashbery’s sense of fun does not do it for me, a whop­pin’ per­cent of the time. Phrases like “man­drills on the turn­pike” leave me cold, cold. But there is a very great dif­fer­ence between being left cold and being pro­voked to the kind of rage rep­re­sented by a cer­tain famil­iar illus­tra­tion from Through the Looking-​Glass. (It’s in the chap­ter called “Twee­dle­dum and Twee­dledee”; you can gaze upon it here.) That’s how I used to react.

What made me change? That’s easy. I stopped think­ing Ash­bery was grind­ing an axe with that stuff. Making a point. Mock­ing expec­ta­tions. Being delib­er­ately lame. These days, I just figure he thinks all that stuff is swell, and I calmly disagree.

I still have Tweedledum-​style melt­downs from time to time, but lat­terly I reserve that kind of thing for sit­u­a­tions where I have to listen to the dorks defend­ing the yaks and the thwacks and the mus­tard cokes by recourse to high-​sounding words and phi­los­o­phy. (This is actu­ally a deep point about mis­placed dis­likes of Ash­bery. Gotta take care not to hate him when you should be hating the people who smack their silly lips over the worst parts of him.) [Sloan dixit: "It's not the band I hate, it's their fans."—mr]

94 Responses

  1. On (a), I always fig­ured JA fig­ured it were good enough for Stevens it were good enough for him. And he was right. Yet another phe­nom­e­non of life where Sturgeon’s Law is useful.

  2. Jordan

    Stur­geon wasn’t enough of a cur­mud­geon.

  3. Kent Johnson

    I think my favorite Ash­bery line is the Erra­tum slip found in the first edi­tion of House­boat Days, a cor­rec­tion for “Fantasia on ‘The Nut-​Brown Maid’” :

    *Due to an unfor­tu­nate type­set­ting error, a line has been printed in an incor­rect posi­tion. Line 6 on page 83, “falling back to the vase again like a foun­tain. Responsible” should be deleted. It appears in the cor­rect place on page 88.*

    One won­ders how such a thing could happen. And would anyone have noticed, with­out the erra­tum note? My guess is that Ash­bery planned it on pur­pose, the inserted slip meant as a detached, mov­able line in the book.

    • Henry Gould

      Close, Kent, close. The errata slip was included by JA to remind him to write another poem today, on that sub­ject. He also uses it as a book­mark.

  4. I con­fess to asking myself ques­tions (a), (b), and (c) every now and then. I think the answers here are as good as any I’ve seen, and better than what I usu­ally come up with. But what about ques­tion (d), which is:

    (d) isn’t it all a bit like look­ing at some really, really good wall­pa­per after a while (I mean, good wall­pa­per, like WIlliam Morris good)? I mean, doesn’t the same set of fig­ures, tones, atti­tudes sort of cir­cu­late end­lessly, with­out much sense of move­ment other than (to steal a Wal­lace Stevens phrase), “merely circulating”?

    Bob

    • Aaah, now I must say, the baroque argu­ments sur­round­ing and sup­port­ing the thin clear deep low flow of art and word ARE a lot like good-​ass William Morris wall­pa­per. They move and writhe slowly within their set yet slowly shift­ing forms. Fun if you’re in that sort of mood, and espe­cially if prone to pattern-​hallucinations. I think you’ve actu­ally defined for me a major reason I’m nosing back around the seri­ous art world again after so long - hungry for that long weird trip­pin.

      PG

  5. Kent Johnson

    Speak­ing of errata slips, and because I know some people here are inter­ested in Bour­dieu, thought I’d men­tion that Gabe Gud­ding and I are locked in position-​taking battle over mat­ters related to PB at Archambeau’s Samiz­dat.

  6. Nobody seems to be object­ing to the objec­tions to Ash­bery, even Archambeau’s — and I share the objec­tions too. What I don’t get is why the felic­i­ties have made him the con­sen­sus Number One Poet of our time.

    I wrote a poem about Ash­bery in May of ‘08.

    [This com­ment has been edited for length.

    Folks, in the future, please don't post your own poetry in the com­ments unless you can keep it to 5-10 lines. If you've got your own blog, post the poem there and add a link to it in your com­ment. If you don't have your own blog, you can get one here, post your poem on it, and then add a link in your com­ment. --rpb]

    • Kent Johnson

      This seems
      like a bit
      of an over­re­ac­tion.
      And that’s
      my poem.

    • What a funny policy! Dis­course must be in prose? What an old-​fashioned notion! Or are you just miffed because I approved of Zizek call­ing Fou­cault a yuppie? To avoid con­fu­sion, you might want to post your com­ments policy promi­nently.

      I posted the excerpts from my poem because I had posted on my blog, and it antic­i­pated a number of Madrid’s con­cerns. I’ve since revised the poem and didn’t want to post a link. Ah well, if anybody’s inter­ested I’d be happy to send you a revised copy.

      I don’t read all the poems in Harriet’s com­ments streams, but I’m glad they’re there.

      • Kent Johnson

        Here’s an inter­est­ing thought exper­i­ment:

        If John Ash­bery hap­pened to send in a poem to DE, would it be edited down if it went over ten lines?

      • Michael Robbins

        I am com­pletely baf­fled when­ever anyone posts their own poetry in a com­ments stream. It’s, well, obnox­ious. If Ash­bery tried to do it on one of my posts, I’d delete it in a second. I had noth­ing to do with edit­ing the above poem, but I whole­heart­edly sup­port the policy.

      • The policy is here. There should be a link to it right near the com­ment box, but for some reason that’s dis­ap­peared. I’ll try to fix it when I can.

        I edit (and some­times delete) com­ments for the simple reason that I want DE to be a place where con­ver­sa­tions can take place. When people post 800 pixels’ worth of their poetry, it acts pretty effec­tively to kill what­ever con­ver­sa­tion came before it. This doesn’t mean there aren’t excep­tions, and I feel quite at lib­erty to make them as I please. (Sov­er­eign is he who decides the excep­tion, and all that…) John’s poem, need­less to say, didn’t war­rant one.

        If Ash­bery sent in a poem to DE I would not only leave it in situ, I would also prob­a­bly repro­duce it in its own post. I don’t know why that would seem mys­te­ri­ous or inter­est­ing to anyone, but there it is.

    • Kent Johnson

      The Medici!

    • Kent Johnson

      [Eleven lines by Paul Mul­doon]

      Holy Thurs­day

      –for Michael Rob­bins

      They’re kindly here, to let us linger so late,
      Long after the shut­ters are up.
      A waiter glides from the kitchen with a plate
      Of stew, or some thick soup,

      And set­tles him­self at the next table but one.
      We know, you and I, that it’s over,
      That some­thing or other has come between
      Us, what­ever we are, or were.

      The waiter swabs his plate with bread
      And drains what’s left of his wine,
      Then rearranges [the tiny chairs], one by one…

  7. I wrote a bit about Ash­bery as Con­sen­sus Bigwig in the intro to Lau­re­ates and Heretics, which comes out in a month or two. Email me at my Lake Forest Col­lege address if you want, and I’ll see if I can dig it up for you.

    B

  8. John,

    This is from an early draft, but it’s the only one I have on this com­puter. And the only ver­sion, I think, that’s short enough for the present con­text:

    When I first read Kellogg’s essay “The Self in the Poetic Field,” I knew I had found a par­a­digm for under­stand­ing poetry that would make the project I had in mind pos­si­ble. Kellogg’s work, based on the cul­tural soci­ol­ogy of Pierre Bour­dieu, pro­vided two things: a set of com­pass points by which one could begin to under­stand the vast­ness and the vari­ety of Amer­i­can poetry; and a way of read­ing that could account for both aes­thet­ics and soci­ol­ogy. His model pro­posed a read­ing of Amer­i­can poetry in terms of the social and aes­thetic claims made for it by its read­ers, and offered a way of con­struct­ing models of the poetic field as it shifted over time.

    Kellogg’s arti­cle defines the field of Amer­i­can poetry in terms of two axes of value, one aes­thetic, rang­ing from the tra­di­tional to the exper­i­men­tal; the other soci­o­log­i­cal, rang­ing from the indi­vid­ual to the com­mu­nal. Read­ers, crit­ics, review­ers, prize com­mit­tees, anthol­o­gists, and pub­lish­ers define the rel­a­tive pres­tige of these dif­fer­ent values, as well as the rela­tion of indi­vid­ual poets to the var­i­ous values. They do this through the selec­tion of works for pub­li­ca­tion or prizes, but also in sub­tler ways, such as the claim­ing a cer­tain poet is rel­e­vant to or rep­re­sents an iden­tity group, or by plac­ing of a poet’s work in the con­text of a tra­di­tion or a school of inno­v­a­tive writ­ing. To sim­plify greatly, you could say that the poet who is claimed from the most posi­tions (or is claimed most strongly for a cer­tain posi­tion) wins — if by “win­ning” we mean gain­ing a large read­er­ship or a pres­ti­gious rep­u­ta­tion. One becomes impor­tant by being claimed as a rep­re­sen­ta­tive of a com­mu­nity (like, say, Adri­enne Rich, as rep­re­sen­ta­tive of fem­i­nist, dis­abil­ity, and queer com­mu­ni­ties); or as an icon of indi­vid­ual sen­si­bil­ity (like Robert Lowell, or others in the con­fes­sional move­ment); or as a standard-​bearer of one or another ver­sion of tra­di­tion (think of Dana Gioia as a New For­mal­ist); or as a lumi­nary of the avant-​garde (like, say, Bob Perel­man, one of the Ivy League’s lan­guage poets). If the crit­ics, anthol­o­gists, and prize-​givers from a number of dif­fer­ent com­mu­ni­ties happen to need what you have to offer, you could be claimed from sev­eral sides at once — the career of John Ash­bery being a shin­ing exam­ple. For some Ash­bery car­ries into our own time the great tra­di­tion that runs from Keats through Wal­lace Stevens (people like this write arti­cles with titles like “John Ashbery’s Revi­sion of the Post-​Romantic Quest”). For others he is the great lin­guis­tic inno­va­tor who inau­gu­rated a new era in poetry with The Tennis Court Oath (people like this write arti­cles with titles like “Houses of Poetry After Ash­bery: The Poetry of Ann Lauter­bach and Donald Revell”). For some Ash­bery is the most per­sonal and pri­vate of poets (people like this write arti­cles with titles like “John Ash­bery: The Self Against Its Images”). For others he is a rep­re­sen­ta­tive of the gay male com­mu­nity (people like this write arti­cles with titles like “Reports of Loot­ing and Insane Bug­gery behind Altars: John Ashbery’s Queer Pol­i­tics”) . If not exactly all things to all people, Ash­bery is, at any rate, many things to many people. His way of cre­at­ing his time hap­pens to be useful to useful to rep­re­sen­ta­tives of all quad­rants of the Amer­i­can poetic field that Kel­logg maps. It is surely no coin­ci­dence that Ash­bery is one of the most canon­i­cal Amer­i­can poets of our time.

    So there’s my 2 cents on Ashbery’s pop­u­lar­ity.

    Bob

    • Kent Johnson

      Hey Bob, where can one find the Kel­logg essay? Is that *David* Kel­logg? I’ve always liked his stuff. Smart guy.

    • Henry Gould

      Good thing that didn’t come with line breaks, Bob. You’d be out of your 2 cents.

  9. Kent Johnson

    >If Ash­bery tried to do it on one of my posts, I’d delete it in a second.

    Oh, yeah, RIGHT!

  10. David Kel­logg, yep. The essay was in Fence 3.2, Winter 2000-2001. Not online, as far as I know. Good essay — witty, too.

    B.

    • Kent Johnson

      Thanks, Bob.

      David Kel­logg is great. He valiantly defended me, on his blog, after Scott Simon attacked me, about two years ago, on NPR’s All things Con­sid­ered. This really hap­pened.

      • Jordan

        David Kel­logg is great.

        Scott Simon is great.

        Kent John­son is great.

        Ain’t it great to be great!

        Just like me.

      • Kent Johnson

        A fine appli­ca­tion of the lower end of the DE verse-​length limit.

        More quin­tains!

      • Jordan

        > quin­tains

        Deep fried, with pollo al carbon please.

  11. “John’s poem, need­less to say, didn’t war­rant one [an exception].”

    Oh, you are a saucy number!

    Thanks for post­ing the com­ments policy. Noth­ing about post­ing poems in it, so you may want to update. I’m sure I’ve gone over the limit for stupid and/or offen­sive — but the poem — well, it wasn’t a poem — it was an excerpt from a very, very long poem, and now the excerpted excerpt is prac­ti­cally mean­ing­less. Please delete the whole excerpt, if you wouldn’t mind — but, please note, it was on point. I actu­ally took out the line breaks to look at it as prose with the thought of re-​posting, but it didn’t read as well, so forget it.

    I would like to re-​post this obser­va­tion, since I haven’t seen it else­where: Roman­ti­cism wrapped in irony. That’s my take-​away from read­ing JA. Bril­liant roman­ti­cism — the “hit lines” are gor­geous, and the Nation reviewer I men­tioned (Ange Mlinko, FWIW) as well as the NYTimes reviewer (whose name I didn’t know and have for­got­ten) both focused on them, as did A. Madrid. I happen to find JA’s habit­ual digres­sions vexing, and his syn­tac­ti­cal sleights-of-hand an annoy­ing styl­is­tic tic (the antecedent-​less “it” is every­where in his stuff), but his great lines blow me away.

    Great post, Bob Archam­beau — makes a lot of sense to me — thanks for putting it up!

    p.s. RPB, we’re neigh­bors! If you live at your mail­ing address, I walk near your place on the way to the Capi­tol Hill Library all the time. Howdy, neigh­bor!

    • Jordan

      Bobby Baird is great.

      Bob Archam­beau is great.

      Ange Mlinko is great.

      Ain’t it great to be great!

      Just like John Shaw.

      • Jordan

        (I’m seri­ous, by the way, and I hope that comes through. SRSLY.)

      • Kent Johnson

        Jordan is my best boyfriend.

        Ron Sil­li­man is my second-​best boyfriend.

        John Ash­bery is on my back.

        He digs his spurs deep in my thighs.

        Don Share combs Miguel Hernandez’s hair on the moon.

      • Jordan

        You lie!

        . )

    • Kent Johnson

      The St. Marks Series is fab­u­lous.

      The SEGUE Series is ter­rific.

      The PENN Sound Series is mag­nif­i­cent.

      None of them have ever con­tacted me!

      In 2000, I smoked with Pierre Bour­dieu in Delft.

    • Kent Johnson

      Apolo­gies. Over­dose of decon­ges­tants, it seems.

    • Glad to hear it John. We’ll have to hit up Vivace one of these days.

  12. Michael Robbins

    >If Ash­bery sent in a poem to DE I would not only leave it in situ, I would also prob­a­bly repro­duce it in its own post.

    Yes, I know. I was lying.

    • Kent Johnson

      Michael Rob­bins lies about John Ash­bery.

      Gabe Gud­ding lies about Pierre Bour­dieu.

      HTML Giant unscrolls its Ode to being hip and twenty-​nine.

      Where is Franz Wright, the hermit of Hab­sheim?

      He is a pillar of snow, with a carrot for a nose, and a tulip for a mouth.

      • Kent Johnson

        Rae Armantrout is a Final­ist for the NBCCA.

        D.A. Powell is a Final­ist for the NBCCA.

        Rachel Zucker is a Final­ist for the NBCCA.

        Keith Wal­drop has won the NBA.

        Lan­guage poetry is like the USSR.

      • Kent Johnson

        Henry Gould imi­tates loon calls in Ely.

        Kenny Gold­smith copies the Times in New York City.

        Lara Glenum talks kinky in Pough­keep­sie.

        Pak­ista­nis scat­ter, a mile below, like ants gone crazy.

        Who says Amer­i­can poets don’t have man­i­fold tal­ents?

      • Jordan

        Don’t you remem­ber being 29, Kent? As I recall I spent that year think­ing I was an old man.

      • Jordan

        Maybe I’m mis­tak­ing descrip­tion for put­downs again.

        Names! inter­change­able.

    • Kent Johnson

      Joshua Clover leans into the wind, like Lenin.

      Juliana Spahr sprays bul­lets into a Seven Eleven.

      Once I was in the Soviet Union with Bar­rett Watten.

      Where are you going, Bar­rett, I said to him near the Neva.

      The sun was behind him, and his face was like a disc of fire.

  13. Kent Johnson

    The fury of Flarf has one oil against two vine­gars.

    The atavism of Con­cep­tu­al­ism has two shov­els against one can.

    Why did Helen Vendler flee across the fields, beyond Erzu­rum?

    Leav­ing her gar­ments neatly folded, atop this mossy stone?

    Because, Frank O’Hara, those are Capital’s dumps that were our coral towns.

  14. Jordan

    OMG OMG OMG RAE HAS GONE AND DONE NAMED HER NEXT MSS M*O*N*E*Y S*H*O*T

  15. Michael Robbins

    I know, she told me & Anthony Madrid this as we walked her to her read­ing at the U of C the other day. Both of us were pissed we hadn’t thought of it first.

  16. Jordan

    YES WE KNOW WE KNOW YOU AND ANTHONY MADRID THIS YOU AND ANTHONY MADRID THAT… YOU COULD HAVE SHARED THE NEWS WITH US ***THE OTHER DAY.*** THANKS A LOT.

    THE BEST POS­SI­BLE AMER­I­CAN POETRY BOOK TITLE IS NOW TAKEN. GAME. SET. MATCH.

  17. Michael Robbins

    She knows it, too. She said, “You guys will like the title of my new manuscript,” then she told us, & we both went, “Oooooooh.”

  18. Jordan

    YES YES WE KNOW JAMES FRANCO WILL PLAY YOU IN THE MOVIE. SHEEEEEESH

    .)

  19. Michael Robbins

    I can’t tell a simple story with­out being accused of logrolling?

  20. Jordan

    You can do any­thing you like, Michael. I can too.

    I’ll say this for that title, though — it will make it less likely that I pur­chase sev­eral copies to give as Christ­mas gifts to family mem­bers.

  21. The day I start trying to impress people by name­drop­ping Rae Armantrout…. Well. What­evs.

  22. Jordan

    Touchy! I’m envi­ous, obvs. Con­sider the all-​caps dropped.

    It’s a great story all the same. (Cue Ken­taine.)

  23. It actu­ally depressed me. I real­ized I wanted that title really bad.

  24. Jordan

    Yeah! Rae has had that effect on me a few times in the past. Glad, I think, that she’s still capa­ble of it.

  25. Then we made fun of Anthony for not being in The New Yorker & prank-​called Richard Wilbur.

  26. Jordan

    Ha ha. Then Obama said, “They didn’t send us to Wash­ing­ton to fight each other in some sort of steel-​cage match to see who comes out alive.” Only *that* one really hap­pened.

  27. I’d pay to see that! Money shot!

  28. @Jordan: “Just like John Shaw.”

    Thanks, but, I am not great, I am life.

    Re: Rae A: sex and death, sex and food, sex and money.

    More songs about death, food, and money! (Robert Graves: Pluto, god of death, was also god of wealth. Freud: money = excre­ment.)

  29. Kent Johnson

    Reread­ing my first quin­tain (or cinquain, what­ever the term) I laughed in horror, real­iz­ing the unin­tended sexual innu­endo! So here is the proper ver­sion:

    Jordan Davis is my boyfriend.

    Ron Sil­li­man is my second-​best boyfriend.

    I carry John Ash­bery on my back, up the moun­tain.

    He digs his spurs deep in my thighs.

    Don Share combs Miguel Hernandez’s hair on the moon.

  30. Kent Johnson

    Rae Armantrout has come to visit, in her full, styl­ish burqa.

    She rushes towards us, across the quad, out of a zone of dark and storm.

    You must know it, and a thou­sand times: We are both in the New Yorker.

    Also, the campus is great, a spot of tran­quil­ity, orbited by garbage.

    Two hours with her in the Library, and our faces go wild; clouds turn into animal crack­ers.

  31. Kent Johnson

    Change “Frank O’Hara” to “Frank.”

    A chap of thirty, solicited yes­ter­day, is in process; it will be ded­i­cated to Jordan Davis, with thanks for the inspi­ra­tion.

    • Con­grat­u­la­tions to you both!

      Look­ing for­ward to seeing the whole series. Please keep me informed!

  32. Kent Johnson

    Thanks, John.

    Change “garbage” to “dross.”

    • Kent, I prefer the “improper” ver­sion. Why would anyone begrudge been mounted by America’s great­est poet? Come on!

  33. Kent Johnson

    Cy, thanks for the sug­ges­tion.

    How­ever, it’s not so much that *I* would begrudge it; it’s just that it comes across as incred­i­bly pre­sump­tu­ous on my part that Ash­bery would want to mount, in that fash­ion, an over­weight, ugly guy like me.

    I was pretty good look­ing in my day, though.

  34. Btw, Anthony’s read­ing at Myopic Books Sunday night (Jan 31) at 7 pm. If you’re in the Chi, please come! I will be per­form­ing var­i­ous card tricks.

  35. Kent Johnson

    In addi­tion to Madrid’s The 580 Stro­phes, there is another major (I said major) first book by a “more-or-less younger” Chicago poet coming soon:

    John Beer’s The Waste Land and Other Poems.

    Now I have the com­plete, signed advance man­u­scripts of both.

    Inquiries and offers from well-​endowed libraries and pri­vate man­u­script col­lec­tors are wel­comed.

  36. Kent Johnson

    Oh, and one more true stun­ner of a book related to Chicago, though the poet is from North Car­olina, out of the now deeply under­ground Lucipo group, and it’s pos­si­ble you haven’t yet heard of him, he’s never been in the New Yorker:

    Tim Earley’s forth­com­ing big col­lec­tion from Cracked Slab, and now I am blank­ing on the title, even though I wrote a blurb for it, the man­u­script is at home, but I’m very seri­ous, it’s going to knock holes in people’s skulls, you’ll see.

    • Ah, Kent, I’m sure you’re being unduly modest. I have seen that photo of you, in a prospect of flow­ers, on some South Amer­i­can street. Anyway, poetry should be pre­sump­tu­ous.

      Anthony (is Anthony is the house? If not, I will talk to the empty air), I find objection/answer (c) espe­cially inter­est­ing, pri­mar­ily because there seems to be a strong ele­ment of puck­ish, even juve­nile, humour in your own poems, what with those moments of goofy sur­re­al­ism and self-​apostrophizing (sic).

      Back to Kent: is Lucipo some kind of Oulipo offshoot/mutant?

  37. MIchael Hansen

    These are straw­men, Mr. Madrid. Come now.

    Kent: I wish you’d put me in one of your poems.

    • Kent Johnson

      M. Hansen has mur­dered an inno­cent deer.

      He saws fast her haunches and snaps frothy two beer.

      Eft­soons and with yare, he cuts forth the heart.

      “Gramercy,” says Rob­bins, “Your courtesy’s an Art;”

      “I shall stuff it for Zizek, in a free-​range fowl tart.

      • Kent Johnson

        Well, I sure didn’t do a very good job with my quo­ta­tion marks in the last two lines, there!

  38. FOR JORDAN, KENT, ROBERT, AND NOT FOR­GET­TING MICHAEL

    There once was a Dig­i­tal Emu­nc­tion
    Whose editor showed no com­punc­tion.
    Then came clinky, linked chains
    Of mar­velous cinquains.
    Hurrah for the poetic func­tion!

  39. Kent Johnson

    The para­graphe organyzes the sen­tences.

    The para­graphe is a unity of quan­ti­tye, not logick or argu­mente.

    Sen­tence lengthe is a unyt of mea­sure.

    Sen­tence struc­ture is alterede for torque, or increased polysemie/ambiguitie.

    Once, on his blog, he com­parede post-​avant poets to Civil Rights marchers.

    • Kent Johnson

      Cy,

      Lucipo was a once-​vibrant move­ment of young poets in Durham, North Car­olina (and envi­rons), ca. early first decade of the cur­rent mil­len­nium. Then my good friend (and still good friend) Gabe Gud­ding posted his famous, bril­liant Poetic Nar­cis­sism man­i­festo on the Lucipo List­serv, a barely dis­guised attack on my person, as well as a brave self-​analysis of his own (though he claimed he was think­ing of Allen Gins­berg). This pre­cip­i­tated a great and leg­endary con­vul­sion, too com­pli­cated to recon­struct, in these boxes. The short of it is that the List imploded and the group went pri­vate, retreat­ing to the hills, set­tling in to a long period of iso­lated polygamy and inbreed­ing, from which it has not yet emerged.

      Here is the entry writ­ten for them by the mys­te­ri­ous feneon col­lec­tive [uni­fied ten­dency]. The book of the fc collective’s 242 faits divers (some of them updated, I’ve heard, from their orig­i­nal appear­ance last year online) is rumored to be in pro­duc­tion and out in the coming months:

      And given up for dead! An ethnog­ra­phy crew, stum­bling through a lost hollow of the Smokey Moun­tains, has found the bearded sur­vivors of the Lucipo group, their lean-​tos arranged around a copper still.

  40. “But if you say the li’l guy rou­tine is a smarmy put-​on, I say unto you: Exam­ine your con­science. I bet your objec­tion is more to li’l guys than to put-​ons and smarm.”

    It *is* a rou­tine — it’s writ­ing! it’s a rhetor­i­cal effect! — and there’s noth­ing wrong with that. It’s the ubiq­uity of the effect that becomes objec­tion­able — too much of the same thing. IMO, YMMV, caveat lector, et cetera, et cetera.

  41. Henry Gould

    Are there any earth­worms in New Jersey?
    Just asking.

  42. MIchael Hansen

    Kent, Even if I weren’t in that little poem, I’d find it bril­liant.

  43. Kent Johnson

    MH,

    As you might imag­ine, I find my deer-​dressing cinquain bril­liant, too, so thanks for the con­fir­ma­tion. (Though I’m really mad about screw­ing up the quo­ta­tion marks at the end there, as it makes it seem that *you* might be speak­ing the last line.)

    MR took it well, and much as I meant it: a gentle, affec­tion­ate poke. He wrote me to say he was going to send it to Paul Mul­doon, urging its pub­li­ca­tion in the New Yorker.

    I wrote another cinquain yes­ter­day, about W.S. Merwin, com­posed of double hexa­m­e­ters, but it didn’t quite work, so I decided to scrap it. Here are three dis­con­nected lines, though, that I thought were kind of good:

    One thing that really blew me away when I first started read­ing Merwin was that he didn’t use punc­tu­a­tion.

    I have no idea how he does it; it’s kind of ghostly and dis­em­bod­ied, like driz­zle, or the Congo.
    [....]
    His vixen, for exam­ple, though a more abstract sen­tient crea­ture, is endowed with both a totally modern mind as well as deep old foresty knowl­edge, and if that’s not awe­some, well, send a drone after me and the whole mud town.

  44. Michael Robbins

    >MR … wrote me to say …

    Of course I didn’t write to say any such thing; I haven’t read the piece in ques­tion. I stopped read­ing this thread some time back. I am, how­ever, glad I clicked on this par­tic­u­lar email to learn that there is a poem I don’t need to read to which I don’t need to respond.

  45. Kent Johnson

    Hey guys, “you don’t say”…

    I thought the ref­er­ence to MR con­tact­ing Paul Mul­doon was the give­away! Geez.

    In any case, MR, of course! I didn’t write it so you would respond, so no need, at all, to assure us that you don’t “need to.”

    How about a report on Madrid’s read­ing?

  46. Jordan

    > give­away!

    Oh, you were kid­ding around.

    You gotta flag those hoaxes, Kent! Use the hoax tag:

    [hoax]He wrote me he was going to say…[/hoax]

  47. Kent Johnson

    Hey, it makes me feel good, Jordan, that you and MR seem to think there was *plau­si­ble* ring to the smil­ing line about The New Yorker being con­tacted on my three-​minute little poem. Maybe it’s better than I sus­pected!

  48. Jordan

    That’s what the inter­net is all about, Kent — making you, Kent John­son, feel good.

    • Jordan

      Forgot to add, it’s also great for making me feel supe­rior!

      • Kent Johnson

        You *are* supe­rior, Jordan.

      • Jordan

        > You *are*

        Just ask me.

        By the way, there’s a *great* Steve Reich com­po­si­tion with that name — I know a lot of people think the har­monies are very ’60s pastel/metallic tum­bler but they are wrong wrong wrong.

  49. Henry Gould

    Did you know that the inter­net in its entirety is retained on the inner lining of your retina?

  50. [Redacted!]

    [Get it?]

    • Henry Gould

      You’ll be famous for that some­day, Michael! You’ll be famous for being famous for being famous!

      btw, if you repeat “famous” at top speed 45 times, you start seeing lil’ green devils.

  51. (”Boy will I!” or vari­a­tions thereof con­sti­tute pre­dictable & pre­dicted responses.)

  52. I would be shocked if the New Yorker repub­lished poems that first appeared on the web (blog com­ments, no less!) — *that* should have been the give­away. (Though I passed glanc­ingly by the com­ment too.)

    And who couldn’t use more gentle affec­tion­ate pokes?



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